Lindsay Velecina: 0:03

Welcome to the Scrum.org Community podcast, a podcast from the home of Scrum. In this podcast we feature professional scrum trainers and other scrum practitioners sharing their stories and experiences to help learn from the experience of others. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Dave West: 0:20

Hello, and welcome to the Scrum.org Community podcast. I'm your host, Dave West CEO here at Scrum.org. So this episode is part of a series of interviews with participants in Google's Project Management Certificate Program. But we're really excited that Scrum.org has been able to contribute to this program. And we were very, very lucky today to have Joanne Cheng from from Seattle, from the West Coast of the United States, here to talk to me today about her journey. And what happened to her during this program. Hello, Joanne, how you doing?

Joanne Cheng: 0:58

Hi, I'm good. How are you? Thanks for having me on this podcast.

Dave West: 1:02

I'm great. I'm excited to talk about this, because you've got quite an interesting story. I mean, from what I understand it sort of all began 2020 graduating just as COVID hit. Tell us a little bit about how you got to the, to this to this program to the to the Google program that Google project management certificate program.

Joanne Cheng: 1:29

Yeah, that's a great question. So it all began when I graduated from college, my undergrad at UC Irvine. And like many COVID grads, during that time, just didn't really know what to do. didn't feel like I had technical skills for this workforce. And in talking with my friends in 2021, in evaluating my future, one of my friends who worked at Blizzard as a UX designer, sent us a link asking us if we heard about this new certificate program Google was putting out and I believe there were five at that time. And the one that spoke out to me was the project management certificate course. And immediately, I just jumped on it. And it has been one of the best experiences I've had in all my academic years.

Dave West: 2:21

That's awesome. So why why did that project management? You know, why did that resonate? Because you've, you've got a psychology degree, right? And that's been your sort of interest through your university and academic life. So why did project management resonate so much?

Joanne Cheng: 2:38

Yeah, I actually have a sociology degree.

Dave West: 2:41

Sorry.

Joanne Cheng: 2:44

Similar. So I always had an interest working in the entertainment industry, or moreso, in like video games, and also comics and, and just talking to people with like, how I operate and how my brain works as a person. Project management was something that always spoke to me, but I didn't really know that it was project management at the time, because I just never really heard that term until after I graduated. And I knew that if it was possible, I would want to work as an editor in a comic publishing company, since that was my background, or I would want to become a producer at a gaming company. But to get to those points were very, I guess, uncertain as to how I would go about it. And it just so happened that as I was going through this course, and learning about Waterfall and Agile methodologies, and also in interviewing with gaming companies at that time that I put two and two together and realized that, oh, a producer can do what a project manager does. Those skills are very interchangeable. So that was how I knew I was on the right path to going into the career that I wanted to go into.

Dave West: 4:07

It's really interesting how project management that sort of learning about how to effectively organize, work, organize value, move towards a common goal, get people working, it's it's sort of like a universal thing. When you're producing a comic book, or producing a game or any of those things. It is it's interesting, but it is surprising. And one thing that sort of made that you jump, you managed to jump that, you know, connection between the two and then go to that program. So I think that's awesome. And what do you think the benefits what why, you know what you said it was one of the most enjoyable experiences, academic experiences that you that you've had your own why why is that? What were the sort of like the things that that really stood out? And then maybe some of the benefits that also came from that.

Joanne Cheng: 5:02

Yeah, that's, that's actually a really great question. And I would say, with academics, especially my undergrad degree, it never felt like I was doing what I wanted to do. Because with undergraduate school, it can be very rigid, very structured that I don't feel that there's much room for me to explore my passions. But I mean, every school is different, every person is different. But with this program, I really felt like this was what I wanted to do. And because I had my eyes on becoming, or project manager in gaming, and through these interviews, I was affirmed of that path. That was what made it enjoyable. And I really felt like I was working towards my personal and career goals. And like, working as a project manager now at a mobile gaming company, it really does feel like a dream job. So that's why I really am so thankful for the program.

Dave West: 6:12

So okay. Do you think it's from my understanding of the program, we've been involved in it a bit, it's quite, you know, the case studies examples, it's very practical in nature, it's very focused on real life kind of stuff. I think Google have done a fantastic job there is that is that what spoke to you so much was that the thing that connected it to your dream of producing or managing the development of mobile games? In this case, it's all about the vocational nature of the learning, right, that Grow with Google as well as now the Google Project Management Certificate Program, that is very much they put it provides actual, that the examples, the things you work through the case studies, etc, are quite vocational, you know, context II, you know, they're not just academic in nature. Does that make most Did you agree? Is that is that the thing that differentiates you think?

Joanne Cheng: 7:12

Yeah, yeah, I think the examples that they had were very good examples, and how to properly apply what we've learned in the program in case studies. So that was definitely helped me prepare me and understanding more about real case scenarios of how to work around certain situations at work that I might face now. And what are the proper ways to like for instance, mitigate damages, or sorry, risks, when something doesn't go the way it's supposed to go?

Dave West: 7:45

That's a great example. So obviously, we're a you know, scrum.org here. Tell me a little about your experience with Scrum. So that's part of the program. Obviously, Agile has become a very popular way of organizing and Scrum has become a very popular way of organizing work and see Google themselves use it a lot. So tell me a little bit about how scrum featured in the program and what your experiences with with Scrum through the program.

Joanne Cheng: 8:13

I remember when we learned about agile that really spoke to me because I finally felt that there was structure in the way that I could see things and how I could apply that in, for instance, my daily life or at work and what is like a good system for people to work in and to continue that cycle and also adjust where it's needed. Or iterate, for example. And scrum spoke to me because I love the idea of working in sprints. And it's just this continuous movement of self evaluation of like, what can we do better for next time. So that really was something I wanted to dive deeper in. And after the program ended, I decided that I wanted to take the exam and learn more about Scrum and become like in the future work towards becoming a scrum master as well or having that knowledge for my future teams.

Dave West: 9:14

That's awesome. And you've passed the PSM I. So that's awesome. That, that you've had the opportunity to do that. And that did so the program helped you get ready for that. Certification and the exams etc.

Joanne Cheng: 9:32

Yeah, I would say that the Google Project Management Certificate Program did help me in preparing myself for the certificate. But there was also a lot of self studying involved too. And there were great resources online for instance, scrum.org had a lot of really good resources and the community board that they had helped me understand more of different ways of applying Scrum and People's Organization. Wow,

Dave West: 10:01

That's awesome. I'm glad that there was materials that can help. It always makes me I almost blushed them for a second. But so, okay, so you've done, you've, you've passed the program, the certificate, the Google Project Management Certificate Program, you've taken PSM I, you've, you know, you've been doing lots of study, what's next? And what's do I expect to see the next biggest online game or mobile game the be produced by John Chang? Is that right? Is that what's next in your life?

Joanne Cheng: 10:36

That's obviously a great question. I am still trying to figure that out, like everyone else. But I hope to honestly work, like, connect more with people who are Scrum Masters, or do you work in a very agile environment, to learn more from them and I have really come to understand how valuable it is to share information, because we're not, I think, I've come to understand that we're not trying to, for instance, be better than one another. But everyone does want each other to grow. And I hope that I mean, next steps is my knowledge in Scrum or agile would grow so that I can be better at my work, and I can be a better project manager for my team.

Dave West: 11:25

That's awesome. I know that's going to happen. And you're right, that I think that's a great shout out to community and the Agile Scrum community has a, it's a very passionate, sometimes a little too passionate community. But it's a great place to improve your skills and to and to grow, to become a better project manager, Scrum Master producer. I mean, these skills are kind of universal, maybe even a better human being a little bit because it's all about working with people, right. So thank you for taking the time today from sunny Seattle. Maybe it's sunny today, which would be a shock to everybody. Thank you for taking the time. I really appreciate it. Hopefully, for the listeners today, you've heard something pretty interesting about how you can really change where your direction follow your passion, and build some professional qualifications during this journey to help you get that dream job. We're very, very lucky today to have Joanne Chang from a project manager from Double Down interactive, who went through the Google Project Management Certificate Program, and is now building some amazing games and helping her team do it every day. Thank you for your time. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Joanne. And I'll see you next time.

Joanne Cheng: 12:52

Thank you so much for having me here. It's been a pleasure.